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News Ticker
  • 29-OCTOBER-2019 NEWS
  • -------- Lets see how long it takes for me to change the news for something new <-------
Lord Grep

Brexit...

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I published this on facebook.

 

ACTUALLY made any sense to me. YES I am sick and tired of the years of having to chose between shit, and shiter. Staying in europe won't do anything though, as govenments before hand shafted this country by being the only EU country to agree to all EU rules, and being the only country back when CZ,SK,PL,and HU entered the EU to allow full scale EU immigration. That one thing KILLED off any hope of the "Unskilled UK Labour force" to be able to afford to have a life and a family, and hope. Now everyone needs a degree to do just about anything and those that havent got one have only got a life of minimum wage and benefits to look forward to. Its not those who came here's fault. It was the "Business leaders" wanting the cheapest possible labour and the "Labour" party's fault for throwing its own citizens under a bus. UK school leavers can't go to Poland and spend 5 years working hard, and living in squalor, in order to come back, and build their own houses, then put their business ideas to use. When are those people who earn a decent wage going to stop looking at those who didn't actually have the intelligence to get a degree as lazy work shy scum. You want to know why the masses have had enough, it's because the majority are those people that don't have the degrees, and who are forced to compete with people who are just here to get the cash to make a decent life for themselves back home... But yeah this guy has it right.. the system is screwed, and brexit shows just what a waist of space this government is.

 

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After the recent local elections having the electorate abandoning both Labour and Conservatives to show what they thought of them. The protest vote was used to benefit Liberal Democrats (pro EU)  who chose to see it as a vote to remain. Nope, all parties want to remain, so with that in mind, who would Brexiteers vote for in protest ?

With the upcoming election of MEPs for EU and the creation by Farage of the Brexit Party, as well as UKIP will give the leavers someone to vote for and give a clear message. As it is a proportional vote than a majority vote, this will not have a split decision effect. 

With enough Brexiteer members in EU causing enough disruption for the EU to stop the extensions which they hope will be extended to a General Election in UK, where all parties want to remain. So all parties will offer a Second Referendum to avoid an impass, which the politicians created.

Democracy is dead, caused by the political elite who do not care for the unwashed commoners. This is why politicians hate referendums, it is outside of their control, this is why it rarely happens, not just UK, but all Western European Nations.

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It's a bit matrixy where the majority have become unplugged and seen what is really going on. The house of commons doesn't seem to even care they are 85% remain despite the peoples majority democratic vote said to leave. Such is the contmpt for the democratic process that they don't even hide it anymore.

 

Whilst they babble on about a second vote, they do ignoring the first, ignoring the biggest slap in the face for the two main parties in the council elections and as you say, the only party truly saying vote for us as we want to leave, will have a massive vote and crush again the parties ignoring the result.

 

How has it that three years after voting to leave, we still haven't?

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Because the powers that rule the EU don't want you to. An independant UK would draw even more countries out of it. They're working so hard to be a European version of the US with Brussels in control of everything.

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https://www.mysociety.org/wehelpyou/how-did-my-mp-vote/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIl8Hukrru4QIVRed3Ch2KjQQ7EAAYASAAEgItH_D_BwE

I have found this site which shows how your local MP has voted in the various debates on Brexit.

My own constituency voted 58.1% to leave EU, but my local MP has consistently voted to block it and wants a second, more meaningful "Peoples Vote"

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Our town voted 68% to leave the eu, our mp voted to remain and has represented remain since 2016. Now there is an election going, he has been pushing leave for the last 3 months hoping no one notices so he can get to keep his £80k a year job with expenses

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Well.. Bozza get's a BIG mandate to do some Brexit (do ya capitalise it <shrugs>) If it doesn't happen now I don't know what to think. Personally after that I might be tempted to go back to the EU and say "Fellas, this deal, wanna sweeten it a bit cos I've got a parlement that's not fucking about any longer"?

 

To be honest I can't wait for it to be over, and for all this "Everyone is racist" shit to go away.

 

My only worry is that we now have 5 years of the tories. I don't know why, but I trust Bozza more than I have trusted any other Tory leader that the UK has had. He actually seems fairly switched on, and could be more left leaning than B.Liar. Lets just hope that they don't get any bright ideas to privatise anything else. 

 

I really hope we can get a trade deal wtih the states. I love my Tech, and tech at USA prices would be fantastic.

 

We'll see I guess.. 

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Well, I live in the North East of England, a true working class area which for the most part (Darlington excepted, a swing constituency) is full on the image of the Red Labour Wall. 6 of the constituancies turned Tory Blue. My own constituency had in 1997 a Labour majority of 25K, now has a 2K tory majority. The neighbouring seat now has an 8K tory majority. Both of these seats have been Labour since 1918 !!!

The first thing Boris did was to visit my constituency and congratulate us for taking a chance with the Tories. BUT, the locals who saw him warned that their vote was a loan and could and would be withdrawn if he took us for granted, which is what the Labour Party did.

Labour stopped speaking for the working class and listened to the urban middle class political elites, which is why the working class rebelled. Corbyn was a toxic choice for leader as well. Working class people have earned what that have and do not want a hand out. We know that nothing, NOTHING, comes free. It has to be paid eventually.

Once again the working class and the moderates have pulled the UK out of the swamp the elites have created.

Boris and the establishment should be taking this election as a wake up  call. Ignore us at your peril. Too often the establishment get a kicking half way through the term on the local elections. The response is always the same :- 1 We will listen (they never do and continue what they were doing), 2 We need to get our message over more clearly (we know better you ignorant plebs).

The most important thing Labour needs to do is know which direction it wants to go. More to the Left with Momentum (bad) or more centred with the moderates.

The most important thing Conservatives need to do is deliver to all regions what they have promised.

The ball is in Boris' court, as well as the EU.

 

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Fuck me... I thought I would have a look at AVEN to see what they were saying about the UK election. I was interested to see what the hardcore lefties were saying about result. 

 

I won't say who said it, but it wasn't one of the usual suspects, it was someone I had a grain of respect for. 

 

"

I think that, as with everywhere, younger people are more left-leaning than older people (on average). Brexit has exacerbated the effect, because many (most?) left leaning older people are pro-Brexit and thus much more likely to vote conservative than they would otherwise.

 

The relationship between class and political position was never straightforward IMO. Middle class folks of high education (those sometimes disparagingly described as "metropolitan liberal elites") have always tended to be left wing or at least liberal, more often than not. A significant portion of the working class has always voted conservative, though I guess far more so in this election than previous ones.

"

 

The part that just blew me away was " A significant portion of the working class has always voted conservative,"..

 

I was hoping that maybe the left would actually get the message that what they are doing isn't working. What I see though is they are even more deluded than they were before. I mean what the fuck has to happen before they get the fact they have lost the argument.

 

How on earth you can look at the demolition of Labour in places where voting tory would get you a beating up until now, where even Borris is saying thank you to all those who lent him their vote, and that there were hands quivering over the ballot paper thinking about their relatives spinning in their graves. I accidently am one of those people. I have joked that if younger me got a time machine he would have punched me in the face. HOW just HOW do you do the mental gymnastics required to think that ANY portion of the working class voted Tory, let alone a significant portion. What has to happen before the left admits that something they are doing is wrong? FUCK I am talking about them like I am not a part of their group. I am a lefty but I can't see a future at all for our ideals while all these people don't see that what they are doing doesn't work, and that the only way forward is to listen to people and accept that their opinions are valid, and they aren't bigoted or stupid.

 

 

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It's an interesting political time.  Old left/right divisions have pretty much eroded, imho.  Authoritarianism vs liberalism, open borders vs tight control, pro-EU vs anti-EU, and progressivism vs traditionalism - these are the big divides now.

 

I don't trust Boris - he's very slippery, though charismatic.  I wonder what kind of Brexit we'll actually end up with, and whether or not it'll drag on for ages, or if the EU will try and bring us back in sometime.  Hitchens reckons BJs Tories are basically Blairites re-born - that basically there is no UK Conservativism anymore, just centre-left progressive socialism vs harder left even more progressive socialism.  He may have a point.  UKIP and Brexit Party are surely dead.

 

And I wonder if Labour will carry on with Corbynism socialism, or move to the centre - in which case exactly what's going to differentiate the Cons from Lab from LIbs?  Not a lot, I guess.  I really hope they get Jess Phillips as the new leader - that'll be funny 🙂

 

And do the Libs even have a place anymore?  They seem almost irrelevant now.

 

Dunno.  I tend to think that politics and politicians aren't that important anymore - technology, culture and global economics seem far more important to me.

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God I so hope the labour party gets it's shit together. We need to get the labour back to the center, and it needs to care about the working class, and not get side tracked into identity politics. 

 

I actually felt so sad that the Liberal Democrats decided to take the "Leave" position. I used to support the libs more than the labour party, they used to be the sensible party that had sensible ideas, like legalising cannabis. 

 

We need to get away from policies where the only argument for them is "If you are against it you're Xist". This sort of politics only works in spaces where you can exclude people who disagree with you. The problem with trying to make them mainstream is that every voter gets a vote, and people can do it in secret. The reason that pundits keep getting the polling wrong is that people are now too afraid of saying in public that they disagree with things, or that they will vote a certain way. 

 

The left these days have created such a bubble around them that means that someone saying "A large number of working class people have always voted Tory" isn't immediately laughed out of the room. Just how much of a defeat needs to happen before the left starts to ask itself "Is it me who is wrong here"?

 

I want to see an and to austerity, and I want to see a more caring state, and policies that help those at the bottom of society, the problem as I see it is that the focus has turned away from helping those who have the least opportunity in society, the poor, the disabled, and the elderly to those who claim to be the most oppressed, and rather than basing the need on something tangible like income, or education, it's all about fighting for issues, that are not issues. It's not gay people, or trans people, or women that can only survive because of food banks, and it's these people the poor, and the disabled that have been thrown under the bus and told that they should stop complaining that services aimed at helping them out are being given to people who have a choice in being here. 

 

It's about time Labour got back to being a party that fights for those for whom labour is the only thing they have to sell. Some people are not suited to university education, and these people should be able to expect a reasonable standard of living, Grrrrrr the whole thing makes me so cross.

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If you want to know what the Labour Party think, here is the inside view. Although Emily Thornberry is sueing in the courts for this interview.

It should be born in mind that her seat was my fathers constituency, and he was an ex-miner and a life long Labour voter.

How many hot mike gaffs do you need to show that the politicians are contemptuous of the voting public.

 

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When you are young and have fuck all, you think everybody else's shit should be shared with you. Then you join the real world, work hard save, have a family, car and a home and you can appreciate why your shit is your shit.

 

As to Corbyns mess, the hypocriscy of those around him is a joke. It's like all those hollywood stars who launched mee too, they all knew what weinstein was upto but kept quiet for their own little bit of power, as did Corbyns front bench and those close to him.

 

The U.K. has rejected socialism at 4 general elections now, over 9 years and 3 different in style labour leaders

 

as a side note, What did surprise me on aven was just how many know fuck all about history

 

example... 

 

michaeld...Yeah I'd love to know how we're going to keep the UK intact now. The more the UK government denies[1] them a referendum, the more the independence movement will grow. Soon the vast majority of Scotland will be in favour. That kind of situation is untenable. Sturgeon is exactly right: the UK can't keep Scotland imprisoned in the UK forever. And by the time they do get a referendum, the UK will have exhausted what (if any) credit they had with Scottish voters: independence will probably romp

 

the agreement on scottish indi is that there must have been a substantive majority over a substantive period to warrant one. since 2014 there has been neither. Sturgeon knows if she leaves the U.K. illegally, the eu will not accept Scotland.

 

natsume....It is now also well established that older people tend to be less favourable towards immigration

 

incorrect, they tend to be more worried about illegal and uncontrolled immigration

 

Cheshire cat........Most Nazi soldiers were just ordinary guys who likely didn't have much choice in the matter. They had to do what they were told or risk themselves and their families being killed.

 

Incorrect...Most GERMAN soldiers were ordinary people, Most GERMANS were not nazi's

 

what worries me more is most of these people are university and to degree level educated and are as dumb as fuck. I'd be asking for my money back if I was their parents

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@PiF The last Labour manifesto was too similar to Michael Foot's one in 1983 which the public voted against. The press at the time called it "the longest suicide  note in history".

Whenever Labour has been in power, it always runs out of money. Sound familiar to history ?

But at least Boris will sign into law NHS funding, absolutely unheard of before (although the funding was approved under May).

Labour spending was ridiculous, the working class rejected it. Because the line between solvency and debt is closer for the working class, that they are more fiscally prudent and take fewer risks. Debt has to be paid eventually, not by the sitting govern,ent, but by future governments. The debt from the Callaghan Lib/Lab government in 1979, took till Cameron's goverment to pay off.

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